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 What happened? Part 2
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Posted on 06-22-05 9:48 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Here is one of Nepal's finest journalists and one-time Sajha contributor, Akhilesh:

Let me preface by saying that anybody who knows Akhilesh knows that he, like
me, is someone who believes in democracy.

But I too SHARE Akhilesh's Nepal-based on-the-ground observations that there is
an undeniable (and puzzling to us democrats) MISMATCH between what the
netas and political ideologues say about the Royal takeover and how
ordinary people view the takeover.

Akhilesh writes:

"To start with, since February First, yours truly has met countless people?bankers, university and school teachers, housewives, shop keepers, students, taxi drivers, restauranteurs?who seem more willing to give the King the benefit of the doubt compared to us journalists and the parties, perhaps two groups worst affected by the developments post-Feb. 1."

"Admittedly, there has for some time been a hole in the media?s portrayal of the state of affairs in the country. In our single-minded focus to restore democracy, indeed an extremely legitimate concern, we perhaps seem to be missing a link or two. Are we, like the parties to some extent, in dissonance with the common man?s and woman?s aspirations? Are we in a denial over the state of affairs that we no longer live in normal times?"

http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=35411

********

Again, let me be clear, these observations here do NOT mean that the King is right,
and that people are stupid. Akhliesh is NOT saying that.

These observations do INDICATE that the "let's give the King a benefit of doubt" viewpoint seems to PREVAIL a lot more widely in REAL Nepal than Sajha
republicans, preaching us from Washington DC, would have us believe.

Tetti ho.

oohi
ashu
 
Posted on 06-22-05 9:53 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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The minority is the ones that makes the biggest hue and cry. The others are just fine without saying anything.
 
Posted on 06-22-05 11:46 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Everyone has right to put his/her view no matter that is in favour or against democracy .In reality very small number of people could decide what is good and what is bad at present situation. Mass is neither in support nor in protest of king or democratic political parties. Even we are on wait and see strategy and believing once again on Pashupati Nath, if original pashupati is still there.
 
Posted on 06-23-05 3:49 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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I am agree with Shaiva, I don't think Akhilesh paper has cover out of kathmandu Nepali view .
 
Posted on 06-23-05 10:08 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Nobody will be happier than me to find Ashu a demcrat (I have invested just too much on him although he perceives them as attacks. Sorry for this pomposity of mine). So this is in no way to pull his leg when he has promoted himself to a democrat for the first time.

All these years, Ashu consistently introduced himself as an "Ambivalent democrat". He was always skeptic about what he calls "textbook democracy" for Nepal. Then a few days ago, he wanted to be called a "Nuanced democrat". Now he goes one step up and declares himself as a plain "democrat". And he claims his democratic credibility should be at par with one of very old Sajhaites and a journalist Mr. Akhilesh Upadhyay.

Good for Ashu. And good for democracy. However, there is a small problem. The rate of Ashu's democratic promotion is also directly proportional to the increase in the intensity of his nuanced support for the monarch. This part is puzzling.

However, given the fact that King Gyanendra himself is claiming to be the most democrat of all and that what he is doing is actually for the sake of preserving (deep-freezing ?) democracy in Nepal, it is not unconceivable that Ashu might have got His Majesty's message. (Remember Ashu's recent claim that most Nepalis are getting His Majesty's message ?)

I'll leave Ashu there.

Now Akhilesh Upadhyay. When he was active in Sajha in a distant past, he impressed me as a man of democratic convictions and commitments.

I don't know what has happened between then and now, but when I read his post Feb 1 article Ashu has cited above, I was taken aback.

Here is what I wrote about that. From freenepal.org

- http://www.freenepal.org:8080/FreeNepal/action/discussion.do;jsessionid=79E02DEBAC046E3AF126C30F75F416A3?currentContentId=11

MODEST PROPOSAL ?
Modesty to the Palace, Lashing out to Fellow Journalists !
Posted On: 2005-04-09 17:30:19.003
By: Deepak Khadka

The original title of Mr. Upadhyaya's article gave me the impression that perhaps the writer has a proposal to end the political conflict in Nepal. I was disappointed not only not to find such a proposal, but also to find that the 'modest' part of his "modest proposal" is directed to the palace and the 'proposal' part to his peers.

His implication, disguised in a form of introspecting question, that the media has been helping the Maoists, which, by the way, glaringly echoes the King's government's point for controlling the media the way it is doing now, and his displeasure with his peers for "the fact that we [they] have consistently spewed anti-Palace vitriol" are perhaps his predilections that have left him with nothing to propose when he appears to be proposing to the palace with this concluding remark, "For now, the onus lies with the Palace."

What onus ?


 
Posted on 06-23-05 10:42 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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I liked this joke from Rupa.

Akhilesh Upadhyay is listing the achievements of King's regime. The top in the list is- the cleaner streets in Kathmandu.

On that Rupa writes, good for Gyanendra. When democracy will be restored, Gyanendra will have no difficulty to find a job. They will hire him to clean the streets.

 
Posted on 06-23-05 12:15 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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I found the article quite good. I don't know why Nepe keeps on behaving like this: as if no other Nepali carries as much knowledge as he does. This is not the first time I have observed this: Nepe unavoidedly tries to personalize every thing. Let me tell you, Nepe, you are a flop hero and a PhD holder only and nothing more: what should I expect from a hit Hero and a Nobel prize winner judging from your sarcasm?
 
Posted on 06-23-05 12:32 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Nepe is as much a Maoists as Ashu is a monarchist. May be the latter is a bit less.

Nepe wrote, ?Now Akhilesh Upadhyay. When he was active in Sajha in a distant past, he impressed me as a man of democratic convictions and commitments. I don't know what has happened between then and now, but when I read his post Feb 1 article Ashu has cited above, I was taken aback.?
How about, he became a ?realist,? unlike you who shields himself behind a monitor, and spits his idealistic views. Could not that be possible?

 
Posted on 06-23-05 1:04 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Hurray, that's possible.

Only thing is that the reality perceived by Akhilesh is not shared by all. In fact very few of his peers share his reality. Are you following journalists' movement in Nepal and what they say ?
 
Posted on 06-23-05 1:21 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Testdirector, kya ho ? You complain about personalization and bring IRRELEVANT personal things about me yourself !?

Personalization Sorsonalization ma jaandina, but I always bring RELEVANT things.

And I always talk about ISSUES. Sometimes persons are themselves issues. That's not personalization, IMO.

And don't take my little fun making with Ashu too seriously. I know Ashu won't. We play that game all the time. Just wait for his reply.
 
Posted on 06-24-05 5:06 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Hurray wrote:
Nepe is as much a Maoists as Ashu is a monarchist.

Hurray, actually what you wrote is true.

However, unlike Ashu, I have never hidden how much Maoist I am.

I have never hidden my support for republicanism and my disdain for communism and irresponsible use of violence. You are free to calculate how much Maoist I am

 
Posted on 06-24-05 7:22 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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With such wonderful intelectual discussion some of you are having here, when Nepejyu asks me to give my "arguments", all I can say is, "me no say nothing".

Me don't like politics, but that doesn't mean you good folks should be, in any way, gagged not to speak your MIND. Believe me, I am learning a lot - just not commited to go either way. I left Nepal thinking it's a God Forsaken country, and it will remain so until it comes out of what I think it is. But again, I may be wrong. I hope I am.

In a god forsaken country many things happen. Some you (we) like, some we dont. But it keeps happening. If the country is so BEAUTIFUL. If if is so LIVEBABEL. If we are so PROUD of "HER", why did we all leave her?

Because it sucks? It has nothing to offer? It is dusty when sun shines and it is muddy when it rains. What kind of a country we left?

A GOD-FORSAKEN COUNTRY.
 
Posted on 06-25-05 10:05 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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That was a great article by Akhilesh Upadhyay - there is nothing more democratic than exercising your freedom of conscience by questioning inconsistencies in the media and politics and holding people accountable for what they are say and do. Even if such people happen to be your bread and butter, or your life and soul.

I have said on numerous occasions, the parties but come clean on whether or not they want Monarchy. If they do, then they must learn to live with it. If they don't then they must say so publicly and openly seek to abolish it. Their failure to make up their minds on this as well as some other major issues, as I see it, is emblematic of a larger problem with our parties - namely inconsistency between what they believe in and say versus what their policies and practices reflect. This, I believe, has been as damaging a factor as corruption in shredding the reputation of the parties to tatters as it sends mixed messages and confusing signals to the public about the capabilities of the parties to lead.

I do not question the motives of anyone - monarchist or democrat, progressive or republican. I am willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and believe those who are doing this are in it because of a strong sense of conviction that their viewpoint is the one that can take the country forward.

I am convinced the King cannot rule the country on his own. The dynamics on the ground don't allow it - he may at most stop some bleeding but cannot cure the country on his own. If a reconciliation can be brought about between the King and the parties and that gets extended to the Maoists, then the country will be saved from more bloodshed. Time is running out but any such reconciliation, even if it is brought about by what we have become used to calling "external forces", is our last chance of creating a quadrangular polity of the King, Maoists, NC and UML that might be able to bring about peace and stability in the country.

If this doesn't happen soon, then we are headed for a structural realignment on a scale never seen before in our history. If the political conflict continues to drag on it will act as a catalyst to bring to the fore the deeply buried social and economic fault lines in Nepal. It is hard to imagine what kind of country will emerge as a result. The trend in Nepali politics for the last 60 years is on a trajectory of power moving away from the elite to the masses. I see no data to suggest otherwise. Absolute monarchy, on the other hand, subjects the monarch to becoming an oppressor and weakens the insitution in the long run (if the power shifts of the past are any indication of how power might shift in the future.)

There is still time for King Gyanendra and Girija Prasad Koirala to make up and kiss. As repugnant as the idea may sound to some and improbable to others, I feel doing so is a better option than what could turn out to be the inevitable the kiss of death: having to play second fiddle to India or Prachanda - both the King and parties loose big in such a case.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: I am not a politician, journalist or academic (although I might sound like one sometimes) and stake no claim to political or analytical expertise beyond holding opinions about current affairs. Any semblance, however unlikley that may be, to such expertise is purely coincidental :)

To good life and peace in our beloved country.

 
Posted on 06-25-05 1:16 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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ssNY,

It is dusty when sun shines and it is muddy when it rains.

LOL. But seriously, it saddened me to see a sense of resignation in a fellow countryman.

I am not a jingoist. But I don't think this kind of forsaking does justice to what we really are.

God has not forsaken Nepal. I am a scientist and I can vouch that the Nature has given Nepalis intelligence at par with any people in the world. We are not an inferior people. Can't you see Nepalis doing well in various fields and often excelling competing with people from "advanced" countries ?

What does this all tell you ?

This tells that Nepalis are potentially as good as any "advanced" people. Our problem lies not in "people" but elsewhere. And we can find that out only by engaging with what we are forsaking, IMHO.


*** *** *** ***


Captain Haddock,

I am sure I am as lacking as you claim for yourself in political, analytical expertise. I just don't have your humility to say that ;-)

Akhilesh probably wrote "a great article". But as much as I can see, this article is going to be a liability for him rather than something he will be able to show proudly to his peers and readers when all this mess gets cleared up and Nepal enters into a new era of LOKTANTRA most probably without the King or with the King reduced to nobody that no journalist ever have to write another "great article" condemning king related stuff like "anti-palace vitriol" ever. Tara tyo bhavishya ko vishaya paryo.

I have nothing but praise for media in Nepal. Yours truly has seen Palace sensitive media both before 1990 and in 2005 and international model media of the free world to say that much.

However, I do agree with what Captain is saying about the political parties. Their inconsistencies, ambivalence and indecisiveness on the very mother of all political questions that has killed 14,000+ Nepalis and left the country with unimagined destructions and scars, is hurting the nation and the people in hourly basis. Their frail voice, almost inaudible, for a self-introspection is another related story.

However, I am not surprised with the situation. The fact is that the political parties are slowly waking up, we all know from what.

So at this transitional time, at this dusk, it is natural to behave that way. Let's keep watching, their consciousness and voice will get clearer, stronger and bolder.

Nepe

 
Posted on 06-25-05 6:31 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Good discussions goin on.

Hey guys, read the article on "Nepal" patrika whose
current issue is dedicated on King G's 21st century
Bhaibhardars: Who are the 21st century BhaiBharDars?
I read it from top to bottom.

From 2007 to 2017, the bhaibhardars were nearly
bankrupted and they introduced Panchayat, finally,
swelled back to original size or much heavier than in the
history.

From 1989 to 2002, they were again nearly bankrupted
and were sustaining only from UN's Peace Keeping jobs
exploiting 1000s of poor Nepalis in RNA and their .....
fund. Now, if you read the article, you can feel who
are these mastermind? Are Tulsi Giri and KN Bista real
DPMs?, I doubt, that they are just hatti ko dekhaune daat,
they are there to fool common Nepalis, but real players
are around Narayanhiti Palace .... as explained in that
long article.

Join
eNepali Janata Party, and may be its better to rename
to
eNepali Republican Party.
 
Posted on 06-25-05 7:41 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Captain Haddock wrote:
There is still time for King Gyanendra and Girija Prasad Koirala to make up and kiss. As repugnant as the idea may sound to some and improbable to others, I feel doing so is a better option than what could turn out to be the inevitable the kiss of death: having to play second fiddle to India or Prachanda - both the King and parties loose big in such a case.


Similar sentiments from the US ambassador:

Maoist victory would create humanitarian crisis in Nepal: US envoy
KOL Report
KATHMANDU, June 24 - US Ambassador James F. Moriarty Thursday said that a victory for Maoists in Nepal would be a humanitarian disaster of huge proportion for the Himalayan nation and a destabilizing force in India.

Moriarty made the remark while speaking at a program at the East-West Center in Honolulu on the current situation in Nepal yesterday reported online news agencies on Friday.

"Next year will be absolutely critical for Nepal," James F. Moriarty was quoted as saying. "Within the next 12 to 14 months, Nepal is clearly going to be going down one of two paths. One is the path of reconciliation between the palace and the parties to come up with a functioning game plan to get the country back to democracy and also to deal with the insurgency."

The other path is bleaker?no reconciliation, increasingly large demonstrations in Kathmandu, and Maoist rebels destabilizing the situation with more violence, he said.
. . .


My reply (posted to nepaldemocracy@googlegroups.com, Jun 24, 2:22 pm)


So his excellency views a popular movement for democracy in Nepal as a
bleak scenario and an arbitrary compromise between the parties and the
palace desirable.

Twin-pillar syndrome at it's best. What else ?

The unity between the parties and the palace may serve certain purpose,
but certainly not the fight to defeat the Maoists.

The reality is: the more united, in reconciliation, in sharing terms
come political parties and the palace, the more powerful get the
Maoists.

The reason is simple. The Maoists become, despite all what they are,
the only force possessing the agenda of Loktantra.

Let us not forget that until October 2002, political parties and the
palace were united. That's the exact period Maoists become what they
are today. Remember the first emergency ? Everybody were united against
the Maoists.

The only thing that can defeat Maoists is LOKTANTRA.

To be exact, snatch the weapon LOKTANTRA from the Maoists and leave
them disarmed and defenseless. That's the only way to fight them.

Alternatively, an US intervention ala Iraqi war might do that as well.
But that is very unlikely. Our water is not shippable like oil, to
begin with !

Or Moriarty sahib does have some magical tarika that he is not telling
us yet ?


 
Posted on 06-26-05 1:02 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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That is another alternative and things may certainly go that way if the King and parties can't patch up soon. The main benefits of the King and parties patching up are a likely reduction in violence sooner and possibly the creation of a framework to bring the Maoists into the national mainstream (as a logical next step to the King-Parties reconciliation).

But I am not married to constitutional monarchy - altough I am willing to give it another chance - if the parties and King can't come together soon then it is all out war. I can only say my the best political force win that war. It could very welll be a long-drawn and bloody one - bloodier than what we have seen so far. Many more people could die. Both in the villages and in the cities. In the already bloody hills of Nepal. In the Terai. In the gallis and tols of the Kathmandu Valley.

My desire to see a reconciliation between the King and parties is driven primarily by the hope that such a reconciliation can lay the groundwork for bringing in the Maoists into the political process and that may save the country from more bloodshed. I am not naive - I love my country and I strongly feel peace still has a chance if only our leaders across the various divides will give it a chance.
 
Posted on 06-26-05 2:13 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Captain wrote:
"The main benefits of the King and parties patching up are a likely reduction in violence sooner and possibly the creation of a framework to bring the Maoists into the national mainstream (as a logical next step to the King-Parties reconciliation)."

यहीं पे मार खा गया ईण्डिया ! (just imitating a Lahure Dai of my village). Creation of a framework to bring the Maoists in ? What framework ? There is no such framework. Actaully it will creat a framework to EXCLUDE the Maoists, not INCLUDE.

Can you suggest a framework to bring the Maoists in realistically, not wishfully ?

Let's hear about that.

If there is one, I sure will support the Monarchy.


 
Posted on 06-26-05 2:31 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Dude - I am not a political expert to suggest one and frankly it is not my business to come up with one because I am not the one who is going to be facilitating the dialogue between our leaders if and when it does happen. Of course there is no such framework in existense today - which is why such a framework needs to come out of a process of dialogue between the King, parties, Maoists (and India if necesary). I imagine it could be on the lines of the 2046 compromise - this time with a constitution assembly and some more checks and balances. If no such framework can be found, then heck, they can kill each other as much as they want - it's avoiding such a situation that warrants this framework.

I'll give you the last word.

 
Posted on 06-26-05 3:51 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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धन्यवाद कप्तान साप । मेरो उपसंहार, उही पुरानो थाँङ्ने कुरा :

So what the hell could be ?a pro-democracy, pro-justice, progressive reconciliation that can bring all three political powers to one place and engage theme in legitimate, peaceful and constructive political activities? ?

Let?s begin with the most powerful and difficult party, the monarch. (The Maoists and political parties are easy to please. Give them a democratic republic, they will be happy. It is the monarch we need to think carefully about). Let?s try to find something the monarch can not refuse. I would rather go one step further and propose: let?s find the thing the King is really wanting. What the heck !

What is monarch wanting ?

More and legitimate political power and dignity.

No problem. We can give him those.

Let?s start with political power. How much political power he might be wishing to have ?

As much as possible.

And how much is as much as possible ?

Ummm? as much as the prime minister of Nepal has, or, had Nepal been a republic with a presidential system of government, ? as much as the president would have. How about that ?

Okay, no problem.

But how can we make that possible ?

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Let the King run in the election. For the president of Nepal.

But then Nepal will be a republic.

Do you have a problem with that ?

No. But the King ?

He has the [possibility for] political power of a president.

How about recently conducted poll that concluded that an overwhelming majority of Nepali people are against the republican democracy ? (pun intended)

:-)

How about prominent leaders and intellectuals who are dismissing and trashing republican democracy ? (pun intended)

:-)

Now dignity. A king defeated by popular movement for republican democracy might not see dignity in running for the election of the president of Nepal. But if the republic of Nepal is established by the King himself by his own great and noble sacrifice of the crown, there is no better dignity and honor than in participating in it.

Yes, the King will need a lot of support and persuasion too from everybody for that. And this exactly where we can and must do a lot and make a difference.

So I urge all the prominent leaders and intellectuals who are, may are dare say, wasting their energy in dismissing and trashing republican democracy, to use that energy in persuading the monarch to agree for a republic and preferably participate in it.

That will a glorious democratic and progressive reconciliation for Nepal. And sustainable one. And one in which all parties of the conflict and stakeholders will be able to come to one place and engage in legitimate, peaceful and constructive political activities.

What can beat this ?

If the King does not agree for it, it is he who should be lambasted, not the aspirants of the republic of Nepal. सबैलाई चेतना भया ।

Read more here:
When Only The Wrong Parties are Right
- http://insn.org/?p=911
 


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